This is Uncomfortable November 30, 2023 Transcript

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2023 Reema Khrais: Hey everyone, it’s Reema. Our episode this week is one of my absolute favorites, it aired back in 2019. And I still find it pretty shocking. You’ll want to listen all the way through because we’ve included an update at the very end. Alright here it is…I hope y’all enjoy it, and we’ll be back in your feeds next week with a new episode. 

Reema Khrais: When Eric Abramovitz was 18, he played in this concert that to anyone else would feel pretty insignificant 

Eric Abramovitz: We were playing this amazing symphony by Mahler – his Third Symphony. 

Reema Khrais: Eric was a clarinet player in a university’s symphony…

Eric: And uh in the last movement at the great climax of this piece, I was just like overtaken by these, like, shivers and, like, unbelievable feelings of joy. 

It’s just like an upward scale, but within the context of the instruments, it’s just like DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUNN DUNNN, but I mean like it’s just huge. You know, I’m doing it justice here…. 

Reema Khrais: The music completely overwhelmed him – to the point where he felt like crying…

Eric: Just from that feeling that I knew that music was exactly what I had to do with my life.  

Reema Khrais: I’m Reema Khrais, and welcome to This Is Uncomfortable, a podcast from Marketplace about life and how money messes it. 

This week a crazy story about one guy’s dreams and an unexpected price tag. 

For as long Eric could remember, he’d been around music. His mom played in a klezmer band…and as he grew up watching them perform he felt mesmerized by the clarinet. When he was seven, he convinced his parents to let him take lessons. By high school, he was winning awards and playing in local orchestras. And once he entered college at McGill University in Montreal, music became his entire life.  

Even when it came to dating. Like he had this crush on a flute player…

Eric: So I asked her if she wanted to join my chamber group.

Reema: So was that your way of flirting with her? Like, “hey want to join my…”

Eric: Exactly, and you know, to tell you the truth, I didn’t even have a quintet yet, so once I asked her, then I had to get a quintet formed. 

Reema: Amazing….

Reema Khrais: Yea, the pick up line worked. They started dating after that. 

Being around his music classmates all the time – there was this sense of camaraderie: they’d push each other in practice and go out together at night. But also they were each other’s competition. 

Eric: Just because the jobs are so scarce, and we’re all going to see each other at those same auditions.  And yeah, ultimately we’re all competing against each other. 

Reema Khrais: The classical music world is small and super selective… especially if the goal is to one day join a professional orchestra. 

Like the principal viola of the Cincinnati Symphony once told a reporter that statistically, it is probably easier to get into the NBA than to get a spot in their orchestra. 

But Eric had a plan. He was going to attend McGill for a couple years and then transfer to a music conservatory, to help his chances.

His girlfriend Jen – the flute player encouraged him to audition at The Colburn Conservatory of Music, this elite school in Los Angeles. 

Eric: She kind of helped me give a little push to apply and you know she spoke so highly about the teacher and the school.

Reema Khrais: At Colburn, Eric would have the opportunity to study with one of his idols, a guy named Yehuda Gilad. He’s one of the most sought-after clarinet teachers in the world. In recent years, about 80 percent of the clarinet positions in North American orchestras are filled by this guy’s students. 

Reema: What were the chances of you getting in? 

Eric: The year that I went to audition, uh one spot was open. 

Reema: Wow. 

Eric: So I was gunning for that. I really believed it would be a turning point in my life should I get in.

Reema Khrais: In the months leading up to the auditions, Eric essentially locked himself into a practice room every night, obsessively going over the same songs and scales for hours.  

Eric: It was so much in my head that I was having dreams about it and having dreams of you know going into the audition and not knowing what to play – but also some good dreams – that I got in and stuff like that. So it was really consuming my headspace. 

Reema Khrais: And the stakes felt especially high because he didn’t have the money to pay for a prestigious master’s program. Finishing his undergrad at Colburn would fast track him into the professional world, and it’d be basically free: every Colburn conservatory student receives a scholarship that covers tuition and housing. 

In the winter of 2013… Eric flew from Montreal to LA for the audition … months of practice came down to just 15 minutes of playing. 

His mom accompanied him on the piano, while his girlfriend waited outside. 

Eric: I played my heart out and it went pretty well to be honest 

Reema Khrais: He played a couple things, this super technical virtuosic solo and a piece by Bach.

Eric: And-and then you just have to have to wait. 

Reema Khrais: Back in Montreal, a few months later, Eric was walking home from the movies when he got a call from an unknown number. It was Yehuda Gilad, the professor at Colburn. 

Eric: I thought maybe he had good news for me, but he just, he said “How’s everything? All the best and hope to see you soon.”

Reema Khrais: Which sounds like good news….

Eric: So I was a little bit excited, but I didn’t want to get too excited from that call because maybe he calls all of the candidates just to check in on them. 

Reema Khrais: He was cautiously optimistic. Then, about a week later, walking home from class, he heard from Yehuda again – this time via email – and this time it was not good news. 

Eric: It says, basically, “Eric it was great to meet you. You’re a wonderful musician. Unfortunately, at this time, I will not be able to take you into the studio. All the best.” That was basically crushing to me, I was very disappointed. 

Reema Khrais: As he read and re-read the email … he saw the future he’d mapped out start to fall apart. 

The following school year was tough: he was bummed about not being at Colburn and his relationship wasn’t doing so hot. They were fighting a lot, and after a little over a year of dating they broke up. 

Eric: So after the breakup we still lived together for a little bit, which I would not recommend.

Reema: Oh god, that sounds awful 

Eric: Yes 

Reema: And then, meanwhile, what was going on in your music life? 

Eric: I was studying with this teacher at McGill who was kind of putting me down and bringing my confidence down, it was just a bad time for me that year. 

Reema Khrais: But despite all of this, he keeps working on his craft. And his senior year, he decides to audition at Colburn again. He starts practicing four hours a day.

Eric: I was hoping that I would show up again and they would say ‘ok this guy, he obviously worked hard in the last couple of years and we’re ready to accept him.

Reema Khrais: Alright, so round two. Eric gets on a plane to Los Angeles again…

Eric: I think I was just as nervous but a little bit less excited the second time around.  

Reema Khrais: He plays his audition…

Eric: Once again, I felt pretty good about it. 

Reema Khrais: And afterwards, the professor – Yehuda – invites Eric to his office for a little chat… 

Eric: So when i get in there, right away I’m met with not the happiest expression on his face. 

Reema Khrais: The mood feels tense…

Eric: And he says to me, “So why are you here?”

Reema Khrais: This is where things get weird…

Eric: And I said, “Well, I want to go here, I want to study with you,” and he says to me, “Well you know you rejected me.” And I’m like, “What? You rejected me!”

Reema: Huh

Eric: And he’s like, “No, you rejected me.” And I I insisted, “No, please you rejected me! I would remember.” 

Reema Khrais: Eric has no idea what’s going on… but he doesn’t push it. They leave it unresolved, exchange awkward goodbyes and Eric heads home. 

For weeks, he keeps replaying the conversation in his head… thinking ok, clearly he confused me for someone else…maybe he’s just not completely with it…

But just to be sure, he gets on his computer and digs up the old email from Colburn rejecting him… and he sends it to Yehuda. 

Eric: So I sent  him this exchange, and I say is this… this is an exchange that you had with me, correct? And he writes back saying that he’s never seen this in his life and doesn’t have a clue what I’m talking about. 

Reema: WAIT, what? 

Eric: Yeah, it was a pretty huge reveal. At this point, I still didn’t know obviously to what extent I was you know I was screwed over. 

Reema Khrais: Yehuda insisted that they sent him an acceptance letter. And to prove it, he requested the school to send it to Eric.

Eric: So they sent it and I’ve never seen this thing in my life. And not do I only see the acceptance, but I see my reply to them, which is from my email address, and I’m just confused as hell. 

Reema: And what does the reply say?

Eric: The reply from my email address was something along the lines of, ‘Thank you very much for the acceptance, but I must reject as I’ll be elsewhere next year, and unfortunately I cannot get in contact with you because my phone is broken. – Eric”

Reema: You did not write that email? 

Eric: I did not write that email. 

Reema: So what is going through your head at this moment? Like, are you just confused? Are you angry? 

Eric: So the first thing that’s going through my head is actually joy because I’m thinking like “oh my god, I did get in, you know I didn’t get rejected.” Like It was a big win for me. And I was going to get to the other bad feelings after that. But first I took a bit of time to just kind of celebrate that I got in when I thought that I hadn’t. So, that was a nice feeling. 

Reema: Yeah. 

Eric: And then of course you know confronting the fact that someone did this to me, and you know I missed out on this dream of mine

Reema Khrais: It was clear to Eric that somebody had screwed him over, but he had no idea who would go to such lengths …you know, writing a fake rejection letter, sending a phony email on his behalf.  Even trying to make sure the school didn’t call him with this whole “sorry, my phone is broken” excuse. 

Eric: It seemed like a very well orchestrated plan.

Reema Khrais: No pun intended. Coming up after the break, Eric tries to get to the bottom of it. 

2023 Reema Khrais: By the way be sure to subscribe to our newsletter if you haven’t already. We’ve got solid recommendations from our team on how to spend your time, things to read and watch and listen to. You can sign up for that at marketplace dot org slash comfort.

AD BREAK

Reema Khrais: Eric had no idea who sabotaged his future. It seemed likely that it was another clarinetist, some slimy, computer savvy musician who was vying for the same spot and wanted to make sure THEY got that opportunity instead. 

His friends, though, had another theory…

Eric: And then people started saying, “Well, you know you were living with this girlfriend…” And I would cut them off ,and and I’d be like, “That’s insane, that would never happen.” It was as crazy to me as as thinking if like if someone asked me had my mom done it. I would have just thought it was ridiculous. 

Reema Khrais: It seemed impossible that the person who flew to his audition to support him, and even consoled him after the rejection, would mess with his future like that, and then lie about it for months.

He kept thinking about it. Until one night… he and his friend are hanging out at his apartment….

Eric: And we decided tonight we’re gonna, we’re gonna crack the case. 

Reema Khrais: They plop onto a couch, open a laptop and…a bag of chips.

Eric: We felt like detectives.

Reema Khrais: Well, more like…first day on the job detectives….

The fake Yehuda email account that had sent the fake rejection letter was at the center of the mystery. If Eric’s ex really was behind the account, he thought she’d probably use her go to password. The problem was, he couldn’t remember it. 

Eric: Nothing was working and it was getting late.

Reema Khrais: And then Eric remembered, Jen used to log onto facebook from his computer all the time.

Eric: to the point that I guess if I would log out of Facebook it would autofill her email and password into it. So that was still there. 

Reema: Using that detective brain… Okay.

Eric: Yeah, exactly. They appear as little dots, but there’s an easy way to have the dots revealed.

Reema Khrais: Eric says back in 2014, all you had to do was check the code associated with the page. 

Eric: Within the code, one of the words is “password” in quotations. If you erase that word and change it to “text” in quotations it’ll reveal the password. 

Reema: Ah sneaky! Okay, I had no idea. 

Eric: So we did that and it was that weird long password that I remembered her always using. So I just put it into the email address, you know the email password field, and it logged right in. To our amazement we were just staring at the screen like with our mouths open.

Reema Khrais: He couldn’t believe it. Because no one had logged in for a while, a page popped up asking if he wanted to update the recovery information.

Eric: And it showed recovery email address, which was her own email address, and recovery phone number, which was her phone number, so that was all the evidence we needed right there. 

Reema Khrais: He quickly took screenshots of everything and changed the password, so that the email account was now under his control. And then it hit him. 

Eric: I mean we we were just like baffled at how evil this was and how evil she was. And now of course I’m putting it lightly now. 

Reema Khrais: It was also just confusing because he didn’t understand why? Like what motivated her to hurt him in such a real way… and then still stick around to comfort him? 

Eric: God knows what reason whether it was you know to keep me around with her, or if it was jealousy, or if it was just some kind of thrill that she gets out of doing crazy stuff like that.

Reema Khrais: I reached out to Jen for an interview, to get her side of the story, but she never responded. And Eric never got answers either.

Reema: You didn’t text her or call her. 

Eric: I did not.

Reema: I feel like the first thing I would do is call them and yell at them.

Eric: And believe me I wanted to. But I knew that it wouldn’t actually help anything.

Reema Khrais: Because he had another plan in mind. 

Eric: This was bigger than just a little fight between a boyfriend and girlfriend. This was, this was something that is definitely illegal. I wanted to seek justice.

Reema Khrais: He decided to sue. 

Reema: And was it ever about money for you? Like did you feel like you wanted SOMETHING out of this whole ordeal?

Eric: Yeah absolutely. I mean through the opportunity that she took away from me — aside from you know everything that I could’ve done from my life or my career — you know the colburn conservatory is 100 percent free room and board school. You know the tuition is valued at around like $50,000. So by not being there I was still at McGill where I was paying tuition where I was paying for rent.

Reema Khrais: And had he got to Colburn, that probably would’ve let to other opportunities – well-paying opportunities.

In the summer of 2016, Eric hired a lawyer, a guy named Marshall Reinhart. Even though what Jen had done was illegal, he didn’t want her arrested; he just wanted compensation. 

He claimed damages for deceit, invasion of his privacy, and infliction of mental suffering.

Marshall says cases like Eric’s, they’re hard to win.

Marshall: If you’re just going in there going this guy, or this woman, hurt my feelings, and I want something to compensate me for that, that becomes very difficult. 

Reema Khrais: He says he had to prove that Eric not only suffered an emotional cost, but a financial one. The question then becomes, how do you put a price tag on lost opportunity? On what your future could’ve been? 

Marshall: You want to persuade the court, that this individual would have continued on that arc, and would ultimately have been extremely successful.

Reema Khrais: Marshall says his job is to make a convincing case to the court, but there’s no real science behind it.

Marshall: It’s a lot of it is hocus-pocus, unfortunately

Reema Khrais: But there are ways to ground it in numbers: like they calculated the scholarship’s worth, what he spent on additional education, and how much he lost in potential income.

And then they presented that number to the court. And the judge, he was convinced. 

Marshall: So the court awarded $300,000 dollars 

Reema Khrais: That’s 300 grand Jen has to pay up. The judge also said she owes 25 grand for the pain she caused Eric and another 25 grand just as a punishment. And then finally, another 25 to cover legal costs. 

Marshall: So in total, it was $375,000.

Reema Khrais: Canadian dollars…which in the U.S. is about a 280 thousand. 

Eric: It was a very validating feeling to see that a judge and a court took this so seriously

Reema Khrais: Reading through the judgment, there’s a line that stuck out to me. It says: “‘Big breaks’ particularly in the arts, can launch a promising artist to a stratospheric career. I cannot speculate as to how high and how quickly Eric’s career may have soared, but for the interference of his girlfriend. But the law does recognize that the loss of a chance is a very real and compensable loss.”

Eric: Yeah, I like that. Haha. 

Reema Khrais: When the ruling came out, Eric’s story – it went viral. 

News clip 1: You guys, take a listen to this, this story is crazy. The career of a successful clarinet player in Canada…

News clip 2: …who is a very talented clarinetist has just won a huge lawsuit to the tune of…

News clip 3: A Canadian college student has won a lawsuit against his ex-girlfriend who successfully plotted to derail his career

News clip 4: So she fooled him into thinking that he’d been turned down by his dream school…

Reema Khrais: But in order to enforce the ruling, Jen needed to be served with the judgment in person. 

The problem was, it was really hard to track her down: she never acknowledged the lawsuit, never responded to phone calls or emails.

Until one day Marshall, saw that she was going to be playing at her university Christmas concert in Toronto.

So he goes and takes his wife with him, so she can serve the documents in case Jen recognized him from local TV interviews. 

And to be discreet, they put the papers in a holiday gift bag…

Marshall: And at intermission, we went down, but we… and I saw Jennifer on the stage, but the stage was at least it was about four feet high, and my wife could not get climb up on top of it. So she’s starting to panic because Jennifer’s leaving the stage.

Reema Khrais: So, his wife spots a side door and runs backstage. She finds the conductor and asks if he can introduce her to Jen. 

Marshall: So he takes her in and my wife says this is for you for after the show. Because we really didn’t want to ruin the second half of the show. 

Reema Khrais: So, Jen takes the bag and says thank you. 

And that is how the judgment was served. At intermission.

When I asked Eric what it was like to get the money, his answer surprised me.

Eric: I have not seen any money.

Reema: Nothing?

Eric: Not a penny.

Reema Khrais: Jen never paid up. Eric’s lawyer says it’s cause she can’t. She apparently doesn’t have any assets to seize, like a house or a car. She claims to be a student, living week to week. 

Marshall: If she had a job, we would be entitled to garnish 20% of her earnings. 

Reema Khrais: So they’re waiting until she does get a job, and every year Marshall will meet with her to assess just how much she has. 

Marshall: I’m pretty dogged, so I’m not planning on giving up. 

Reema Khrais: But it’s still frustrating for Eric… this whole suit was about money. 

Eric: I don’t know if I would have gone through all the trouble. 

Reema: Yeah. 

Eric: Just to have a piece of paper that says she did a bad thing.

Reema: Was ever a point where you like, almost felt bad for her?

Eric: Uh, yeah, for sure. I’m sure that’s got to be tough on someone when they’re like an internationally viral villain.

Reema Khrais: So in case you’re wondering – or if it’s not already obvious – Eric did not get accepted to Colburn the second round. At the time the school thought Eric had declined the first admission, so he thinks it hurt his reputation – made him not look as serious. 

Instead, he did a certificate program at a university where Yehuda teaches, so he DID get to study with him, but just not as closely, and it wasn’t free. 

Then, last year, he auditioned for a position with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. He was up against about 100 people from around the world.

Eric: They whittled down the candidates until they get to, in my case, it was down to two of us. And finally, they called me into the maestro’s office. And he came in and shook my hand and said, like, “Congratulations.”

Reema Khrais: In another year, he’ll be up for tenure at the orchestra…as a 25-year-old. 

Eric knows he’s lucky. Usually you have to wait until someone leaves or dies before a spot in an orchestra opens up. He landed somewhere he wanted to be… even if it’s delayed.  

But thinking back to it all, it still stings. And sometimes when something feels so incomprehensible and awful, you just want to make sense of it. You want something to latch onto. And for Eric, that’s been the money. 

Eric: When it comes to missed opportunities or lost time, nothing can really give you back what you lost. But I think, you know, money – it helps. It’s, it’s something at least it’s it’s the closest thing to easing the wound a little bit.        

Reema Khrais: And the fact is, he ended up OK – more than OK. But it’s still hard to not think of what could’ve been. I think all of us can think of moments in our lives and wonder what would’ve happened if we took another path or made a different decision. But in Eric’s case, he was able to put an actual price tag on that lost opportunity – $280 thousand dollars – and he hopes someday he’ll get that money. 

2023 Reema Khrais: Hey it’s me again, this story first published in 2019 so it’s been about four years since I talked with Eric. He emailed us recently with some life updates. He was offered a promotion with  the Toronto Symphony Orchestra to become the Principal Clarinetist. He also got married to the love of his life last year: she’s an elementary school teacher, and Eric made sure to tell us that she has yet to derail his life, which is an excellent quality in a spouse. 

In terms of the lawsuit, he unfortunately has not seen a dime, and he’s not holding out hope. But he says the good news is that he barely thinks about it anymore; that chapter is in the rear view mirrors. He writes: “I’ve returned to a life of calm anonymity, and luckily my ex’s attempts to sabotage me were completely futile.”

Alright that’s all for this week’s episode, as always if you have thoughts or just want to shoot us a note or share your own story, you can hit us up at uncomfortable@marketplace.org

Drew Jostad:

This Is Uncomfortable is hosted by Reema Khrais.

This episode was produced by Reema, Hayley Hershman, Peter Balonon-Rosen, and Megan Detrie, back in 2019. 

It was edited by Sarah Kramer, with additional support from Jonathan Hirsch and Nancy Farghalli. 

Zoë Saunders is our senior producer.

Sound design and audio engineering is by Drew Jostad. That’s me. 

Bridget Bodnar is Marketplace’s Director of Podcasts.

Francesca Levy is the Executive Director of Digital.

Neal Scarborough is Vice President and general manager of Marketplace.

And our theme music is by Wonderly.

Reema Khrais: 

One more thing before we go…

We want to hear from you, our listeners, about your financial confessions! Do you have a confession that’s too juicy not to share? Maybe you pretended to be in love with when you really you were just in love with their money. Or you lied about your financial status to fit in. Or maybe you have  a sneaky trick to avoid getting stuck with the bill. Whatever your confession it is, no matter how small, share it with us and we might include you on the show. You can email us at uncomfortable@marketplace.org… or call and leave a message at 347-RING-TIU… that’s 347-746-4848. 

Alright, I’ll catch y’all next week.